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	<title>Comments on: Clich&#233;s are hard</title>
	<atom:link href="http://happygiraffe.net/blog/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://happygiraffe.net/blog/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/</link>
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		<title>By: dom</title>
		<link>http://happygiraffe.net/blog/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-237</link>
		<dc:creator>dom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 07:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://happygiraffe.net/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-237</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.w3.org/People/Bos/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bert Bos&lt;/a&gt; emailed me a while ago with this tidbit:

&lt;blockquote&gt;

Somebody pointed me to your article[1] about the characters that are allowed in class names in CSS. You correctly deduced that é (e with acute accent) is allowed, but your article may lead people to believe that letters in other scripts, such as Chinese or Arabic, are *not* allowed.

I readily admit that the specification is difficult to read, but it does say that all characters outside the ASCII range are allowed. In section 4.1.3 there is the phrase &quot;ISO 10646 characters U+00A1 and higher&quot; and in section G.2 is says that the grammar only shows code points up to (octal) 0377, but that in fact everything up to (octal) 04177777 is allowed.

[1] http://happygiraffe.net/blog/articles/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/People/Bos/" rel="nofollow">Bert Bos</a> emailed me a while ago with this tidbit:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Somebody pointed me to your article[1] about the characters that are allowed in class names in CSS. You correctly deduced that é (e with acute accent) is allowed, but your article may lead people to believe that letters in other scripts, such as Chinese or Arabic, are *not* allowed.</p>
<p>I readily admit that the specification is difficult to read, but it does say that all characters outside the ASCII range are allowed. In section 4.1.3 there is the phrase &#8220;ISO 10646 characters U+00A1 and higher&#8221; and in section G.2 is says that the grammar only shows code points up to (octal) 0377, but that in fact everything up to (octal) 04177777 is allowed.</p>
<p>[1] <a href="http://happygiraffe.net/blog/articles/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard" rel="nofollow">http://happygiraffe.net/blog/articles/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard</a>
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Dominic Mitchell</title>
		<link>http://happygiraffe.net/blog/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-236</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominic Mitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://happygiraffe.net/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-236</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Mark Fowler: Very true.  But the &lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;W3C&lt;/span&gt; does &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.w3.org/TR/charmod-norm/#sec-ChoiceNFC&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;recommend &lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;NFC&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/a&gt;…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark Fowler: Very true.  But the <span class="caps">W3C</span> does <a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/charmod-norm/#sec-ChoiceNFC" rel="nofollow">recommend <span class="caps">NFC</span></a>…</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Fowler</title>
		<link>http://happygiraffe.net/blog/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-235</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://happygiraffe.net/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-235</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Of course, in Unicode, &#8220;é&#8221; has a character code under 255 if and only if you&#8217;re using &lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;NFC&lt;/span&gt;.  Use &lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;NFD&lt;/span&gt; and everything suddenly looks a lot different&#8230;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, in Unicode, &#8220;é&#8221; has a character code under 255 if and only if you&#8217;re using <span class="caps">NFC</span>.  Use <span class="caps">NFD</span> and everything suddenly looks a lot different&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mot</title>
		<link>http://happygiraffe.net/blog/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-234</link>
		<dc:creator>Mot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://happygiraffe.net/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-234</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for the article. Proper research done and describben. I love that style. For &lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;CSS&lt;/span&gt; charsets it pays to consider using the declaration inside the &lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;CSS&lt;/span&gt;-File as well with the @charset-rule:&lt;/p&gt;


&lt;pre&gt;
@charset &quot;&lt;IANA defined charset name&gt;&quot;;
@charset &quot;UTF-8&quot;;
&lt;/pre&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;it belongs at the very beginning of the document. (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-charset&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;more&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;For the &lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;HTML&lt;/span&gt; a charset can be added as well into meta headers. This helps to read documents when they were saved and are not provided by the server any longer:&lt;/p&gt;


&lt;pre&gt;
&lt;meta http-equiv=&quot;Content-Type&quot; content=&quot;text/html; charset=UTF-8&quot; /&gt;
&lt;/pre&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;does that job. But all this is only a very slight addition to your great article.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the article. Proper research done and describben. I love that style. For <span class="caps">CSS</span> charsets it pays to consider using the declaration inside the <span class="caps">CSS</span>-File as well with the @charset-rule:</p>
<pre>
@charset "&lt;IANA defined charset name&gt;";
@charset "UTF-8";
</pre>
<p>it belongs at the very beginning of the document. (<a href="http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-charset" rel="nofollow">more</a>)</p>
<p>For the <span class="caps">HTML</span> a charset can be added as well into meta headers. This helps to read documents when they were saved and are not provided by the server any longer:</p>
<pre>
&lt;meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" /&gt;
</pre>
<p>does that job. But all this is only a very slight addition to your great article.</p>
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		<title>By: Dominic Mitchell</title>
		<link>http://happygiraffe.net/blog/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-233</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominic Mitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://happygiraffe.net/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-233</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@steffen: Good point, but terribly anglocentric.  Perhaps you would win the &lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;IOCCC&lt;/span&gt; “Best abuse of the rules.”  :-)&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;@codingvista: It depends on the server side language.  Certainly Java and Perl allow you to use Unicode in identifiers, possibly Ruby too.  I think &lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;PHP&lt;/span&gt; is the only severely Unicode crippled language at this point.&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;But in general, this post isn&#8217;t really about those specifics.  It&#8217;s more about: “How do I get a proper answer to my web development problem.”  And for that, you do need to go to the specs.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@steffen: Good point, but terribly anglocentric.  Perhaps you would win the <span class="caps">IOCCC</span> “Best abuse of the rules.”  <img src='http://happygiraffe.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@codingvista: It depends on the server side language.  Certainly Java and Perl allow you to use Unicode in identifiers, possibly Ruby too.  I think <span class="caps">PHP</span> is the only severely Unicode crippled language at this point.</p>
<p>But in general, this post isn&#8217;t really about those specifics.  It&#8217;s more about: “How do I get a proper answer to my web development problem.”  And for that, you do need to go to the specs.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steffen Tiedemann Christensen</title>
		<link>http://happygiraffe.net/blog/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator>Steffen Tiedemann Christensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://happygiraffe.net/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-232</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Nice article, but there&#8217;s a much aasier solution: &lt;a href=&quot;http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/clich%C3%A9&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/clich%C3%A9&lt;/a&gt; ;-)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article, but there&#8217;s a much aasier solution: <a href="http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/clich%C3%A9" rel="nofollow">http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/clich%C3%A9</a> <img src='http://happygiraffe.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: codingvista</title>
		<link>http://happygiraffe.net/blog/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator>codingvista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://happygiraffe.net/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-231</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;I haven&#8217;t time to read the whole lot so you may have already mentioned this but if you reflect &lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;CSS&lt;/span&gt; id&#8217;s/class names in server side code, and there are good reasons why you&#8217;d do this, then using complex characters would be a nono.&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;Just my .5p&lt;/p&gt;


	&lt;p&gt;w://&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t time to read the whole lot so you may have already mentioned this but if you reflect <span class="caps">CSS</span> id&#8217;s/class names in server side code, and there are good reasons why you&#8217;d do this, then using complex characters would be a nono.</p>
<p>Just my .5p</p>
<p>w://</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dan Eastwell</title>
		<link>http://happygiraffe.net/blog/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Eastwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://happygiraffe.net/2007/12/19/cliches-are-hard/#comment-230</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Great article Dominic! Saves me the time of having to work it out for myself. There will almost certainly come a point where things aren&#8217;t working and I&#8217;ve ended up using a &gt;255 Unicode character in my &lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;CSS&lt;/span&gt;. Again!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article Dominic! Saves me the time of having to work it out for myself. There will almost certainly come a point where things aren&#8217;t working and I&#8217;ve ended up using a &gt;255 Unicode character in my <span class="caps">CSS</span>. Again!</p>
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